What type of game would YOU like to see next?

[GameDevChris]

Hey, all,

I'm curious about the general consensus on what type/style/genre of game, fans would like to see next from Himalaya Studios.

Feedback on the game resolution and interface etc. would also be appreciated.  Do YOU prefer games rich in dialogue with narrator speech that include descriptions for everything? Or do you prefer the more simplified interfaces of newer adventure games like Syberia?  Please do let us know!

[SirWulf2]

Personally, I'd love to see a game that was a bit like the old Laura Bow series, in particular the Colonel's Bequest game.  Have that old game style, and have to solve a mystery talking to each of the suspects, who have their own timeline.

It was a game well ahead of its time when it first came out.  I'd like to see that style brought forth to today's tech, while keeping the detail and simplicity.

[Angelus3K]

I appreciate that is is A LOT of hard work but personally I prefer unique descriptions for everything, to me it shows the dev cares more about their game than placing generic comments for background stuff. But do not mind if smaller dev houses to this because of the amount of work involved. Which was why I was so amazed with Al Emmo!

I definetly would like to see an Al Emmo 2 but would also love to see a time travel SCI-FI story from Himalaya.

[Melcadrien]

To be honest, I liked the Al Emmo game so much, I hope to see a sequel to Al Emmo since there seems to be a form of a cliffhanger from the epilogue.  If not perhaps some other adventure-type game.

[coroloro]

I can say without a doubt that I would certainly adore -anything- that is time travel, point-and-click fantasy like KQ, werewolves/mythological... and if I'd voted for the time travel/sci fi one it would be rivaling the 'whopping' three votes for a sequel. However, I voted for QFG type style because I think that's what this genre really needs- I love it, I MISS QFG... I miss the feel, the humour, the fantasy, the heart... all of it. I'd love to see a completely new story, fresh ideas and plot from an original game... but with the same 'Sierra' feel that all Hima productions contain.

I'll be honest- having beta tested Al Emmo, I've seen the detail and care that went into it. I love all the work, the quality, everything... but even seeing all that, if I hadn't been given a copy of the game as part of beta-testing, I never would have purchased it. Western just isn't my style- if an Al Emmo 2 came out, I don't think I'd be interested. But if ANYTHING else came out close to the other genre's mentioned I'd be interested... I'd die and go to heaven if it was RPG/QFG style. I would like to think a LOT of other Sierra fans would flock to it, as well. You'd also get a lot of fans of the fantasy genre in general who would be interested whether or not they were familiar with Sierra. I know that I, personally, don't really even look at a game (even the popular ones off the shelf, with the best graphics) unless it is 1) fantasy in nature, or 2) has sci fi in it, but a more story-based or RP style one... preferably with mystical elements. (My favourite combination of the two is 'The Longest Journey', and its recent sequel, that combines fantasy and sci fi perfectly and keeps the adventure genre alive)

I think you should try to poll/ask the interest of other fans of adventure games and various genre's- I think from the meager responses you've gotten here you might find yourself getting mainly those who were really into Al Emmo.

Again, as I said at the start of the beta, I'd be a tough critic- I go into judging a Western story with a very skeptical view to begin with. I think I'd enjoy about any genre better. Also, while I realise it's a whole beast of its own- if you ever considering investing the time and resources in making Windows Mobile (Pocket PC, newer cell phones) versions of your games you might find a whole new market will open up. A lot of past adventure games are becoming very popular in pocketPC adaptations.

-Pat, a Hima-fan through and through

[Kloreep]

A QFG-style hybrid would be great. Doesn't have to be fantasy though, I'd be happy with a sci-fi or a mystery as well. (Gotta agree with coroloro on Al Emmo though, it was a good game but I'm just not a big fan of the genre.)

On the interface: I'm not a big fan of everything having a description. It's nice, but I'm ultimately only going to see a small portion of the text that's written for background objects. Of the adventures I've played - haven't played many recent ones though - Grim Fandango's hotspot system is probably one of my favorites. (Thing is, GF's worked well because it was entirely keyboard, so you actually had to move around to investigate rather than just mouse over stuff. Not sure it would work that well for point-and-click.)

[Lambonius]

I think the Coles had really stumbled on something great with the QFG series.  It remains one of the only truly unique game series' in adventure gaming history, mainly due to the hybrid RPG/Adventure format.  In my opinion, it's also the type of adventure game with the absolute MOST untapped potential, and it would be great to see a proven group like Himalaya Studios take on the project.

EDIT:  Also, I don't see why an RPG/Adventure QFG-style hybrid has to be specifically set in the fantasy genre.  Imagine how cool a sci-fi influenced version would be, or something with lots of supernatural elements to it, even a horror-based game in that style.  The possibilities make the mouth water.

[Pixelcrazee]

Hello....
I'd be happy with a sequel to Emmo.....or any type of adventure game...
something along the lines of Space/King Quest or LSL....something,anything...I'm starved of decent Adventure games to play...waaaaaa.....take pity...make more games!

[aragorn256]

Good evening all,the name's Spyros and I am glad to to know you all!

Now to the important facts, I am voting for Quest for Glory type/theme. It could take place to a world similar like Glorianna, with a Chinese/Japanese/Arabic background. I would like it to be like QFG4 in style (generaly dark) with a touch of humor. It would be great to be able to chose male/female. If you chose male then another actor could use the female model and vice versa so it wont be useless. 3 classes(I love the Paladin, but 4 classes are too much to ask) like the Glory games. Now you have the knowledge and the technology to see you through this. I am certain you will succeed. What do you say?

[Sargon]

Poor Kings Quest gets no love... but anyway, I'd love to see another Quest for Glory type game in a new setting.  It doesn't even necessarily have to be in the fantasy genre as long as it has the Adventure/RPG combo.

[haradan]

I hate to sound so un-original, but I agree that QFG was unique and I'd love to see that style of game again. Replayability is greater than in most adventure games, so I think that's another plus and it would attract more potential buyers.

[trezy]

I would  love to see another QFG style game, they were my favorite  games of all time, and it would be great to see a game like that again.  I am also willing to help out in any way I can be it voices or testing or whatnot.

[johnb4467]

Well I know this was posted a LOOOONG time ago, but I think the question is still valid; I'm half-way assuming that you guys haven't undertaken anything HUGE quite yet, with QG2VGA still being worked away on & whatnot.

The question is a tricky one. You obviously want to appeal to the widest audience possible, which would be the fantasy genre --
but that also means it's the most saturated.

If your target market is still the traditional niche adventure gaming audience, then fantasy is definitely your 'safest' bet...but it would also be the hardest to come up with original material for. KQ6, KQ5, etc all borrowed very heavily from mythology and whatnot (of course you know this), which gave it a very "familiar" feeling, but a lot of the better known works have already been pretty heavily covered (from the river styx on up). But, those are timeless stories that I would think could still be retold freshly if approached correctly.

Maybe the best way to approach something would be to take a "soft" influence to existing subject matter. The best example I can think of is QG4. The Coles took the general Vampire mythology (including other myths such as the Rusalka), culture, etc, and really weaved a wonderful story arch & memorable, developing characters.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE, whether they meant to or not, most of the very successful adventure games followed Joesph Campbell's "Hero Formula" VERY, VERY closely. KQ5 and QG4 are again wonderful examples. This is true for almost ALL of the Sierra games, as well as some of the most vastly popular modern stories ever told, ranging from the Godfather, the first Matrix movie, to the original Star Wars movies. The latter is an especially good example, since Lucas was a close friend and pupil of Campbell and followed his works very closely, following "The Hero's Journey" to a T. It's also worth noting that he hardly did this with the prequel trilogy, nor did the last two Matrix movies...and while they all made a lot of money, I think most will agree that they are not of nearly the same story-quality as the earlier installments. Heck, the first Pirates movie is another good example, with the later two movies not following the formula as well -- and consequently not faring as well in the "story" department.
I'm sorry I'm rambling on about this, but Joseph Campbell's teachings are standard and required material at a lot of film schools, and should not be overlooked as a valuable resource. I know you didn't exactly ask for all of what I've written above...but since story is so crucial to an adventure game, I want to make sure you go into it with as much ammunition as you can!

SO AS FOR what I myself would like to play as a Himalaya release:

Probably fantasy...though if you could do it effectively, taking another genre could make you stand out from other games.

The interface is very debatable. The classic sierra interface works well, but later LucasArts games had a pretty nice, "hidden" interface as well (ie Full Throttle, Curse of Monkey Island, etc). I'd say the more 'hidden', the better; you get to enjoy the art more, and get to see "more" of it as far as screen real-estate is concerned. Though that doesn't mean dumb down the interface to the phantasmagoria/kq7 level!

I think the hand-painted backgrounds are still the way to go, especially with adventure games. 3D just doesn't age as well, and hand-painted just gives it an undeniable charm.

Something that might really be notable that I don't think I've seen hardly ever is higher-res character art. KQ7 tried this, but it didn't work well...and they had a load of artists to do it, so maybe this isn't really do-able with a smaller team. A good example of not ridiculously detailed but VERY pretty characters is Curse of Monkey Island. Very vibrant colors, but not a "ridiculously detailed jacket texture art" or anything of that sort.

I don't know about specific game resolution. I'd say if you go as high as Curse of Monkey island, it's going to be fine...I would think color depth is more important than resolution, though I wouldn't go below 800x600...1024x768 might be a good goal...but I know that's pretty high res to do an entire game in.

I really enjoy narrator speech, though I don't think "everything" needs a description. It's nice...but I don't want you guys to go crazy, either. There's definitely a point of 'overdoing it'. Really the most important narration you need are things that can't be grasped from the visual. Ie, if there's two huge pillars clearly visible up on the horizon, you don't need to put in there, just for the sake of putting it in: "Up on the horizon there's two huge pillars..." when you could instead have the narration giving insight into what you, the character in the game, is thinking of as he looks at the pillars.  I only mention this because something similar to this was explained to me while I was in school, and it really made me think about how much more you could get across with the same amount of work/time.
 
So. I've written a lot. Sorry. Hope it is at least somewhat helpful though.

John

[WriteOh]

Hey John,

Thanks for your input.

From a writing perspective, I take your point about the hero's journey. It remains a powerful story in all its iterations. (Why, oh why, did Star Wars have to abandon it in the prequels?)

I've learnt a lot since Al Emmo, and there's so much I know I could do to push myself further. Narration wise, I'd definitely want to to aim for "less is more".

Having said all that, I thoroughly enjoyed working on Al Emmo. Definitely a rewarding experience.

Daniel Stacey

[GameDevChris]

Thanks for the great feedback so far, keep it rolling in!

What a coincidence. I was just researching Joseph Campbell and the monomyth a couple of days before johnb4467 made that post!

While I do agree that every film or story follows the Hero's Journey structure of storytelling to a large extent, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the end results will be good.  For example, many modern films employ Cambell's structure, but because it's made so obvious that they're following it, the movie often becomes predictable to the point that you can anticipate exactly what characters are going to do and say.

In the early stages, I think it's not so crucial if the audience realizes the story is going 'on rails'. For example "refusal of the call to adventure" pops up very early in nearly every film, from 'The Lion King' to 'The Rock'. Sure, you can see it coming a mile off, but at that early stage people are still settling into things and the main core of the story isn't involved yet, so it works as a good launchpad for motivating the characters and giving them a sense of purpose to do what they have to do.

In my opinion, it's usually the ending stages of a story where deviating from (or perhaps "disguising" is a better word) Campbell's final few steps is more crucial.  If we see a telltale car chase or the hero's girlfriend being kidnapped at some very late point in the film, then it's usually an obvious indication that the rest of the film is going to follow the same old blatant formula. I.e. there's a confrontation, the bad guy dies, the good guy prevails, and the screen fades to black (or the reverse situation if it's a thriller/horror).  Keeping the same structure towards the end can be lazy unless originality and some unexpected twists are used. (How many times do we need to see McClane sitting in an ambulance right before the credits roll?)

Good examples which disguise or re-arrange Campbell's structure somewhat (making it less predictable) are Pulp Fiction, Se7ven, The 6th Sense, and Back to the Future 2.  While a movie that retains his predictable structure, but is well-told enough for you not notice it so much, is the original Matrix.

That said, writing structure for games tends to be a bit different than writing for films. Games (particularly adventures) typically follow a pre-determined course in which the player HAS to win in the end as a reward for playing and getting that far. With this in mind, it does tend to make using the standard Hero's Journey structure more acceptable since the "predictability" factor is a given. From the outset the player knows their end goal,  they know the outcome they want to bring about and the effect it will have.  Additionally, if it's possible to die in a game, then not only do you have to write the main story, but also plan for all the alternate plot deviations that can occur at any point if the player makes the wrong choices - a bit like one of those "Choose your own adventure" books! That's something that film-writers and book-writers do not normally need to worry about (with the notable exception of "Next/The Golden Man").

But definitely, I agree that all Sierra games did remain true to Joseph Campbell's formula and it worked well for them. It's certainly something we'll be keeping in mind in the future.

[Fuddy]

In my opinion, it's hard these days to come up with an idea for a game that's not old and tired. I like the fact that Al Emmo was a western, I can't off the top of my Head think of an adventure game that is in that particular setting.

obviously you want to be unique and stand of from the rest. You can't take too much from KQ or QFG without seeming like you're just "ripping off" or feeding on the old fans (not that there is nothing to be said for the profitability on that)

The ideal is as expected a middle road where you have something to fresh to attract new players and just enough of the old to let the old fans feel nostalgic. IMHO the fantasy Genre is far too over done. Wizards witches and goblins and things. Extreme sci-fi is often cheesy. One of the reasons I think RW worked well is because it was a comedy. Comedy is always good (if it's funny) and it's probably easier than being serious.

My personal favorites probably stray more towards lucas arts's Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle. People seem to be into Pirates these days.
If I was making a game I might try to do a little sci-fi but not too out there. Like say 50-100 years in the future, or present day but somethings just different enough to keep things interesting (think Zak McKracken but better). I LOVE saitre, and have a particular fondness of dystopias. Mini games are also great, including an RPG element would probably attract more people as well.

Also, I think that the Narrator in SQ6 adding his commentary like that was AWESOME and, if you have some one with a good voice like that which was perfect ,having the narrator make fun of the hero was a great gimmick. Geeks also love a sexy female hero ;-) It might be good to change things up in the Male hero dominated adventure game market ;-)

Oh add to that, if you have good animators, I know that 3D is in right now but I think things like the Wii prove that people don't care about realism. I love the cartoony style of KQ7 and SQ6 any day. If you can replicate something similar I think it would be beautiful, but of course do your best to make it your own :-D

[coroloro]

I think a key element that makes me a fan of many Japanese animations, and that really made Quest for Glory 4 stand out from the rest, is the willingness to break from the "Disney formula", heck even the typical American formula, of clear cut heroes and villains. Al Lowe, when outlining Toran's Passage (I think it was Toran) in his game design booklet, stated holding to the Disney formula of making villain's clearly look outwardly like villains, the good characters like good characters, etc. But QFG4 really changed that up.

One part that, to this day upon hearing the music even, really brought tears to my sisters eyes along with me was the Toby scene- that, and of course the powerful switch at the end made by Katrina, the whole little romantic interlude and constant lack of surety as to who was really good and who was not. That's something central to Asian thinking and thus why Anime has such a fun and interesting flair- you never really know what might happen next, or who will come out on top.

So I think pursuing that slightly unique style in the fantasy genre will already give you an edge. Looking not to be purely 'unpredictable' for the sake of it, but rather to make complex characters and be willing to break genre lines in a Sierra-like style (QFG4, for example- an example used a lot because frankly it's the best QFG game ever made by many fan's standards, and a top level Sierra game). I love how they would mix in comedy, horror, drama, romance... they didn't stick solely to just one genre. And the series of QFG as a whole, as well as Kings Quest, would take turns leaning towards different styles and genres. QFG really changes 'genres' with the cultural setting- even the way the story was told evolved to fit the styles of stories from the chosen culture.

One thing QFG lacked is something Kings Quest had some of- a well defined hero character. And something I feel -many- Sierra games lacked was a certain depth of character development, particularly in the main character realm. KQ4 and KQ6 pushed that envelope a bit in a good way (gosh, I'd love to see KQ4 remade!).

Adventure games rely a LOT more heavily on plot and story than most other genres- so the plot has to be GOOD, the setting interesting, intriguing, and beautiful. The Dig is the only non-Sierra adventure I've ever been passionate about, and they did a wonderful job of hitting all those elements.

I think if you don't hit either fantasy, or sci fi, you're going to loose out on audience (myself included, sorry!). I think Sierra proved through KQ and QFG that taking from unique cultural settings as well as mythological backgrounds is a very, very wise choice.

I'd really like to see higher resolution. I think to make a very appealing adventure game that will sell and not look 'dated', choosing a higher resolution is almost a must. I think choosing sprites and drawn backgrounds over 3D is a must, for a game that isn't super-big-budget but wants to look beautiful and impressive.


I don't think it would be a cop-out to capitalise on fans of Quest for Glory and take off in similar directions. Once QFG2 remake comes out, I'm going to be slavering for 'more of the same'... you should benefit from your efforts on the remake and try to produce an original game with similar elements. I also imagine your experience from working with the remakes you have done thus far will enable you really blaze trails with your next attempt!

I communicated with Al Lowe not too long ago, and the poor guy has given up on adventure games. I'm convinced the reason he has failed in his most recent, and probably last, attempts is that he tried to 1) go 3D, 2) too far too fast. He was only focused on starting with big-name companies for mass markets. Taking your approach is the best way to slip back in- relying on fans as a base, and making things that appeal to fans as familiar but STILL new and original, will help you establish yourselves and this genre.

Adventure games are NOT dead, there are both fans and potential fans out there.

-Pat, former Al Emmo beta tester (and wishing he had made it in time to become a QFG2 beta tester!)

[JonWW]

I would love to see an Adventure/RPG series like QFG.  Maybe make the base characters all be able to advance into two or more distinct professions late in the first or middle of the second game.
  
Fighter: Can advance to be a Knight or a Paladin.  Knights will be allowed to wield more powerful weapons.  And Paladins will have mystical weapons to use against evil.

Magic User: Can advance to be a Wizard or a Cleric.  Wizards will have more powerful attack spells while Clerics have more healing and protection spells, both classes having basic spells for puzzle completion.

Rogue:  Can advance to Thief, or Assassin.  Thieves are Rogues who gained the trust of the thieves guild and are allowed to fence stolen goods.  Assassins are trained and used by a society to use stealth and cunning to eliminate key targets.  Basically the difference in the classes is their connections, thus different side quests.

[OmegaSpreem]

Technology:

After giving it some thought, I prefer low res graphics to high res. High res graphics are harder to animate, and what typically happens is that the sprites have to lose quite a bit of detail that is oftentimes "suggested" by low res sprites. Therefore, a high res game would most likely have a cartoony look if it is done without pre-rendered sprites. Quite like KQ7 and Space Quest 6. Low res graphics OTOH have a more nostalgic feel to them (take a look at Mega Man 9 for the Wii), and they can be used to convey a sort of realism with less effort than the high res counterparts.

I quite prefer the classic VGA Sierra interface for adventure games; it's fairly intuitive. I say if small children can figure out Mixed-Up Mother Goose, then it's fine.

Simplified interfaces like Myst don't really feel intuitive. Instead, it feels like I'm just walking around looking for buttons to constantly push. Not much thought in that.


Setting:

Westerns just aren't interesting anymore. Kids don't want to grow up to be cowboys.

An oriental theme would be interesting, but please don't make it like Heart of China (overabundance of stereotypes). Stick only to what you KNOW, or at least are willing to go the extra mile to research.

Fantasy/Scifi/Mystery/Horror all sound great. There are two settings I would personally love to see a game in; a Blade Runner like contemporary scifi setting and a surrealist Roger Dean painting influenced setting (can be fantasy, scifi, horror, whatever!).


And the GAME itself:

I understand if you want to take a break from QfG like games after spending so much time with the remake. However, with today's GameFAQs loving generation of gamers, the QfG blueprint is the most likely to rope them in. KQ requires almost no need for good reflexes and offers no character customization. Not so with the QfG formula, but that's why the QfG games were so much more difficult to make. I believe it's worth the extra effort.

Good discussion about following the Hero Formula. It would be good to make the player feel "empowered" from the very beginning. Let him be able to easily take down a few dumb Saurus-ish monsters that yield only small rewards before feeding him to the big game, after reaching a certain milestone. Then escalate the difficulty/rewards of the monster encounters again after another milestone. Almost every popular game does this in some way.

I really like JonWW's idea of branching superclasses. A few "dark" (not necessarily evil) classes would be interesting to offset the "light" ones. Warlock for Magic User, Barbarian for Fighter and - since Rogue already has the Assassin - a Robin Hood like Ranger class. The next best thing to a Conquests of the Longbow sequel!

[justluke32]

Ok, I followed a link here from a similar thread on the AGDInteractive forums (http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12229&p=199336#p199336).

Here's my thoughts on the subject of theme, reproduced from that thread:

Ever since waaay back in the mists of time, shortly after QfG 2 was originally released, I've hoped to see a QfG-style game with an East Asian oriental setting. You know, something that mixes together Chinese, Japanese, and Korean myths and history. QfGs 3 and 4 were fantastic (and QfG 5 was, um, QfG5) but still, they were not quite what I was looking for. They didn't scratch my itch.

and also on class and character development:

See, I would go the opposite direction - I'd streamline the game - because adding extra classes (etc) would make the game far too large and complex for a small team of developers.

No, I'd eliminate strictly defined classes from the game altogether. I'd retain the "use a skill to improve it" system, though, and make this (and perhaps the completion of relevent optional side-puzzles) the criteria for receiving class-like abilities.

For example, raising one's intelligence and honour to a certain level, and completing a quest for the local Daoist Monk, would allow the player to learn Daoist spells; raising one's strength and honour, and completing a quest for the reclusive romantic swordsman who lives near the peak of Mount Wu, would allow the player to learn sword techniques; raising one's dexterity and reducing one's honour, and saving the local beggar thief from punishment by the locals, would allow the player to learn thief skills. In many ways, you might say that this is akin to treating every class in a similar way to the Paladin class in QfG.

Each decision that the player made would narrow his selection of future options, thereby subtly "streaming" him into one of three unofficial classes - Daoist, Swordsman, or Beggar Thief - or into none at all. Keep it simple and allow the player to develop his "class" through in-game actions rather than by making a snap decision at the start of the game, that's the key.